Interview with Jerry Cecil Brown

Dixie State University Library Oral Histories
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00:00:00

Jerry Cecil Brown was interviewed by Randall J. Bunn on December 11, 2018 at the Southern Utah Veterans Home in Ivins, Washington County, Utah. He related his military experience and life experiences.

RB:I have asked Jerry to share some of his stories with regard to his military service. Before we start, when were you born?

JB:[I was born] June 23, 1928.

RB:Where were you born?

JB:[The] little town was called Mount Emmons, Utah.

RB:What county is that in?

JB:[It is in] Duchesne County.

RB:Were you one of five children?

JB:[I was one of] five [children].

RB:Your mother and father [had five children]

JB:[This was] the first marriage.

RB:Your father passed away. What was his name?

JB:[His name was] Bruce Fox Brown.

00:01:00

RB:You said you were one year old [when] he passed away. How did he [die]?

JB:No one knows. There were no doctors out there. He went to the church ward .

RB:Were you LDS then? [The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]

JB:Yes. They had movies. A [fellow] came out from Salt Lake [City, Salt Lake County, Utah] and sold movies on Saturday nights. [The man from Salt Lake City] was starting to show the movie. [My dad] was sitting there and he leaned over to talk to a person in the next row and [fell] over dead. [The day he died was August 22, 1929.]

RB:Wow! And they don't know what caused that?

JB:They don't know. They believe it was a heart attack, but there were no doctors there, [so] there was no way to know.

RB:About how old was he?

JB:[He was] thirty-six [years old].

RB:Thirty-six, that is incredible! Very young. He left a wife and five children 00:02:00to survive. What was your mother's name?

JB:Her name was Cordelia (Byrd) Brown.

RB:What did she do after .

JB:We had the farm. She raised lots of vegetables. She was able to raise most of our vegetables.

RB:What kind of vegetables? Do you recall?

JB:We had potatoes, we had corn, we had all the table vegetables. She had a full garden. The two older boys were old enough to help her. They raised the garden and she [received] help from the church. The next two or three years, I don't remember just how long it was before she remarried [George Loran Boswell]. They 00:03:00were married in 1931.] He wasn't what you would call a good earner, so they didn't have much.

RB:This was [during] The [Great] Depression. Right?

JB:This was in The [Great] Depression. In 1936 he received a bonus from the military because he was a Purple Heart recipient in World War I. He received this big bonus, paid $800.00 for [a] brand new 1936 Ford and moved to Walla Walla, Washington where they were supposed to have some building going on. They lived there for three years, but it didn't pan out too well. We moved back to the farm in 1939. In about 1943, I think, we moved to Salt Lake [City]. He got a 00:04:00job at [the] Clearfield [Naval Supply Depot during] the war.

RB:[World War II] was going on at that time.

JB:Clearfield was the Naval supply depot. I went to school. After I [was] kicked out of school.

RB:You didn't tell about that on the tape. [Do] you want to explain how you [were] kicked out of school?

JB:I told you. [Laughter]

RB:[Do] you want to tell me again? No? [Laughter] What happened?

JB:I was teasing a girl.

RB:Were you a junior [in high school]?

JB:[I was] a junior in high school.

RB:Do you remember what high school you [were attending]?

JB:[It was] Granite High [School in Salt Lake City]. The teacher called [on] me to quit. I didn't and he came down and grabbed all of me. I made him let go of 00:05:00me and I hit him in the stomach and he was kind of fat. He told the principal. The principal had a meeting with me. [We] already knew each other pretty well. I was out. I was probably fifteen [years old] then. I worked in different places until [I] was seventeen [years old]. Then I joined the [United States] Navy.

RB:How was it that you came to join the Navy?

JB:The war was on.

RB: This is 1945?

JB:[It was] 1945 and that was the thing for young men, they could join [military] service. Fight for your country. I wanted to get away [was] another 00:06:00thing, so I joined the Navy.

RB:Did you go down to the recruiting station?

JB:Yes.

RB:In Salt Lake [City]?

JB:Yes.

RB:Where was that? At the old train station?

JB:No. I don't remember.

RB:[Not] remembering [is] not a problem.

JB:No, but I went there. [It] was kind of interesting.

RB:What did they do?

JB:My eyes had been bad and I wore glasses. When the doctor saw me he said, "We can't take you. Your eyes aren't good enough." I was broken hearted. I wanted to go in. I worked a few months, came back and thought maybe I [could] get in. Maybe I would see another doctor and [be able to] talk him into it. I went back and he said, "Haven't I seen you before?"

00:07:00

RB:Oh, dear!

JB:I said, "Yes, because [of] my eyes you wouldn't let me go in [the Navy], but I have been eating lots of carrots."

RB:[Laughter]

JB:"My eyes are better and I can see." [Laughter] He said, "Buddy, if you want to go to the Navy that bad, you are in."

RB:You got in the second time around. [Laughter]

JB:I went to San Diego [California] for boot camp.

RB:How did you get to San Diego? On a bus [or] the train?

JB:It was the train. That was my first train ride.

RB: First time on a train, first time out of the state. No, because you had been in Washington state before.

JB:Yes, the train ride to San Diego.

RB:And [you] went to boot camp.

JB:I decided to make a decision to obey, that I was going to get along and do good. So I did. I worked hard and did this. I was a good athlete [and] I could 00:08:00do things. I got along pretty good with the powers to be.

RB:You said you were a good athlete. Did you play sports, at all, when you were growing up?

JB:Altamont [near Mount Emmons, Utah] didn't have any sports except basketball. We left there when I was thirteen or fourteen [years old]. I was little so I didn't play sports at all.

RB: You didn't play in high school?

JB:Not at all. That's another story. We had this [fellow] who was one of the cadet officers, [a] squad leader is what it was. One day we [were] in the 00:09:00shower. I came out [of the] shower [and] he started flipping me with the wet towel. I played the game and went out and got dressed. [When] he came out of the shower, I started flipping him with the wet towel.

RB:[Laughter]

JB:He was a better target than I was, he was a big [fellow], a big, big [fellow]. He got mad and [was] going to beat me up. They said you can't fight here, wait to put on the gloves. [Laughter]

RB:Boxing?

JB:We put on the gloves. I had been boxing a little bit in Walla Walla [at the] YMCA [Young Men's Christian Association].

RB:So you knew a little bit about boxing. Wow!

JB:Yes. I pummeled this [fellow] and beat the hell out of him.

RB:[Laughter] That is great!

JB:Calvert quit. The next day the company commander was a JG [Lieutenant Junior 00:10:00Grade Officer, Grade 2 or O-2]. He heard about it, of course, and teased me a little bit. It was kind of funny, but I was in pretty good shape. I played on the basketball team.

RB:You did?

JB:Yes, I have pictures.

RB:I would like to see them. [Do] you have them here?

JB:Yes.

RB:I would [like] to see them. [Is this when] you are still in boot camp?

JB:Yes, we were in boot camp. [Then] we finished boot camp. We were all shipped to different places. I was shipped to Norfolk Virginia [along with] four of five 00:11:00from my company.

RB:[Did] you go by train from California to Virginia?

JB:Yes. [We] went by the train, an old-field troop train. The doors would open and coal dust would fly in. We ate these sandwiches. They were baloney sandwiches. That was about most of our diet for five days.

RB:Oh, man!

JB:[In] five days we [were in] Norfolk [Virginia] and decided that USS Leyte [CV-32] aircraft carrier

RB:The USS

JB:Leyte.

RB: L-E-Y-T-E?

JB:Yes.

RB:Was that from The Philippines?

JB:[It was] named after the Battle of the Leyte Gulf.

RB:Yes.

JB:I was assigned to the [USS] Leyte. She had not been shook down yet and we were waiting for [the final approval and acceptance by the Navy] shake down.

00:12:00

RB:What is a shake down?

JB:Every ship that the Navy builds,they have to be "trialed".

RB:Kind of a testing and a review of everything [to] make sure that it is all ready to be commissioned?

JB:Right. Whatever weaknesses they find, they clear it up and that was it. We went to [the] Caribbean, off of Guantanamo, Cuba, and did this shakedown on the airplanes, flew [them] off and everything.

RB:What kind of .

JB:I was assigned as a seaman.

RB:Was it an aircraft carrier?

JB:[A] big [one], yes. At that time, it was one of the biggest, called DS Express, Essex class.

00:13:00

RB:Essex class?

[VIDEO RECORDER TURNED OFF]

RB:We are back.

JB:This is the book [about] the shakedown cruise and some of the pictures, if you want to look at it. [He showed an album with photos.]

RB:I would like [to see] that.

JB:[There are] pictures of the basketball team. I am kneeling down in front.

RB:In the middle?

JB:Yes.

RB:Let me see if I can get a picture of this. Jerry is in the middle.

JB:Kneeling down.

RB: As I am looking through this a little bit, tell about the shakedown. Did 00:14:00they find any significant problems?

JB:No.

RB:This is the picture of the USS L-E-H-T-E.

JB:No, L-E-Y-T-E.

RB:I am sorry, L-E-Y-T-E. It was an Essex class aircraft carrier that they did a shakedown in 1945. Right?

JB:[In] 1945 or 1946.

RB:Yes, 1946. Tell a little about the shakedown. What did you have to do to help prepare?

JB:I was a deckhand. I was in one of the deck divisions. We painted, we cleaned, we had the boat pocket so we had two, three boats. We captured the gig. [A 40 foot motor launch and a 16-foot motor whaleboat.] I was assigned to take care of 00:15:00the boats. I took care of the boats and learned how to drive them. The 40 foot motor launch was used to bring supplies in and to take the men on liberty to their port. We anchored out [and] we [would] take them to the shore on liberty.

RB:So your job was to actually man the boat that took them [to] the shore and back?

JB:Yes. I have pictures of me on the motor whaleboat. We were in the Caribbean most of the time. While we [were] there, Chile voted in their first Democratic 00:16:00President. Actually, the war was over and the ship, after they finished the shakedown, we were assigned goodwill. We went to Chile through the Panama Canal. [We] went down through [and] crossed the equator. There are some pictures in there of the canal and crossing the equator. That is a picture of the prettiest bay I have ever seen.

RB:Valparaiso, Chile?

JB:Valparaiso, Chile.

RB:Wow! It is beautiful!

JB:We went in there a little before six o'clock in the morning. There was a fog and the fog just lifted [gesturing]. When that fog lifted we saw the whole bay. The houses with the people knowing we were coming, [so they] white washed all 00:17:00the houses on a hill. The whole bay.

RB:Beautiful!

JB:There goes a beautiful sight. Those are some of the pictures.

RB:Chile's president is Pike Dabord, accompanied by the admiral. Do you remember that day?

JB:I remember that day, but I wasn't aboard, I had duty. I was running the liberty boats. They had what they called "manning the rail." Ever hear of that?

RB:No.

JB:Manning the rail is [something] they do to honor someone. All of the crew [is] in dress whites and we lined up all around the ship.

RB:Wow! That must have been impressive!

JB:The ship was like 900 feet long. That is three-football lengths long. Then it 00:18:00was this crew. It shows a picture there, somewhere, [of] manning the rail.

RB:I am looking for that.

JB:Go [to] another page, you are still in Chile.

RB:It is Chile, yes. Oh, yes!

JB:You will see the pictures of them manning the rail. There it is.

RB:This is a picture of the USS Leyte and manning the rail in honor of the Chilean President. He came aboard the ship?

JB:Oh, yes!

RB:That is [very] impressive.

00:19:00

JB:The big events involved there were actually going through the Panama Canal.

RB:What do you remember about the Panama Canal?

JB:The Panama Canal the locks were very, very narrow. We went through by scraping the sides we had to take off the port side gun tubs and elevators.

RB:Because it wasn't wide enough?

JB:You couldn't go because it was too wide, so they took off the elevator and [went] through the canal. We went through the canal, put it back together [and] went down to Chile, across the equator and had the regular initiation at the equator. So we became pollywogs. What [did] they call it? Shellbacks.

00:20:00

RB:Describe that experience.

JB:There are some pictures there. You passed them?

RB:Yes, okay.

JB:[When] crossing the equator, they did all sorts of things. There is a picture there. You can tell it's me, I think. You "run the gauntlet" they call it. And they took those rubber hoses and line them up on both sides. The pollywogs have to run down the middle and they beat them with these hoses. Then we had a big vat of garbage we had to crawl through on our hands and knees. We had to crawl through great water hoses about this big around [gesturing a hose about one yard in diameter]. Water was coming at us. We had to crawl into it, full force

00:21:00

RB:[You] had to get through the force of the water?

JB:Yes.

RB:Wow!

JB:It shows pictures there of this [activity]. There you go.

RB:"King Neptune's representative hold his courts."

JB:Yes. You can see some of the pictures of running through the gauntlet.

RB:This one running through.

JB:One of those is me.

RB:[Laughter]

JB:This one is me.

RB:Okay. That is great, you are right in the middle of the picture. Was that all in good fun or ?

JB:Oh, it was all fun, yes. There was no anger or anything like that. We got 00:22:00back to Norfolk. We spent the next month, or so, repainting the ship. After the shakedown, it was a dull grey then. We painted it a light "battle ship grey" they called it. Very bright and light. Those are just pictures of all the divisions.

RB:Which division were you [in]? Do you recall?

JB:I was in the fifth division of the Gunnery Division. Keep going. That shows all the aircraft division first.

RB:It is a great book, [It is a special book for his time on the ship.] Do you 00:23:00recall what aircraft it carried?

JB:We had three types: the fighters were called "F8s". We had the "SB2C" which was a high altitude bomber. Then we had the torpedo bombers. They [were] fast [and] heavy aircraft. They would come in and shoot gun torpedoes.

RB:Were you in the Fifth Division of the Gunnery?

JB:Yes, you are in the right place. Is that the Fifth?

RB:Yes, I see this says, "The Fifth Division of the Gunnery." Then are you in 00:24:00this picture?

JB:Yes, that is me right there.

RB:Oh, there you are! Oh, gosh! Handsome sailor, that is nice!

JB:There is my first four months. I don't know the exact date, four, five months. Then we went to the Mediterranean [Sea].

RB:Did you first go back to Virginia?

JB:Yes, [we] went back to Norfolk.

RB:Then [what]?

JB:Norfolk was our home base. Except the fact that the airplanes were kept at Quonset Point [Naval Air Station, also commonly known as Quonset Hut] Rhode Island. Quonset Hut, Rhode Island was a place where when we would come back 00:25:00from overseas, for instance, and maybe 250 miles out they would fly [the airplanes] off the ship and land in Quonset Point. The same thing would happen, they would fly off of Quonset Point and we would pick them up out [at] sea.

RB:When you took off from Norfolk, the aircraft would fly down to Virginia and ?

JB:Well no, we would come back [to] Quonset Point first and the airplanes would fly off.

RB:Oh, okay, I see. You [would] go up to Rhode Island then you [would] take off?

JB:Then we would go overseas again. After that we were assigned to the 00:26:00Mediterranean. We went into Mediterranean Sea, Spain, France, Turkey, Greece, all [of] those Mediterranean places.

RB:Yes.

JB:We [were able] to see a lot of the Mediterranean.

RB:When did you come into port?

JB:I was on the boxing team.

RB:You were?

JB:Yes, I was on the boxing team on the ship. We would either go off the ship or go to them [other boxing teams] or they would come aboard and have a "smoking" [boxing match] on board, depending on the place. We had [what] we called smokers.

00:27:00

RB:[Laughter]

JB:We had one in Turkey one in Greece and one in France, I think I remember. It has to be seventy years ago! [Laughter]

RB:The fact that you remember as much as you do is pretty good.

JB:Yes. Anyway, it was great. It was a great experience for a seventeen year old farm boy who had never been anywhere, didn't even have electricity until he moved away. We didn't have electricity until I went into the Navy.

RB:Wow! A lot of new things for you.

JB: Salt Lake [City].

RB:You are in the Mediterranean. Was there a mission for that cruise?

00:28:00

JB:No. Good will [was the mission].

RB:It was good will after the war.

JB:We would anchor out. We would, go to a country say for instance, Naples [Italy].

RB:Yes.

JB:Naples [Italy] was a good sized city. We went to Naples [and were there] as friends. Anybody that got drunk, got into fights or anything was [in] bad, big trouble.

RB:Yes.

JB:Mostly we were very careful. We were in Egypt. Remember the Casbah?

RB:In Morocco?

JB:Yes, Morocco. We went in, of course we were warned "don't go in alone. Don't go in with less than ten people." [Laughter] We had ten [fellows] and we went in the Casbah. It was quite the experience.

00:29:00

RB:Is that right? [Laughter]

JB:Yes. The things that were there were interesting. This went on for two years or longer. I [was discharged] in 1948. When I [was discharged] I came back to Salt Lake [City] and went back to work at the brickyard. My uncle made a shelf that you want to see, that is hanging in my room.

RB:I would [like to], yes.

JB:He was going to Utah State [College, Logan, Cache County, Utah]. He said, "Why don't you come to school, get your education on the GI Bill." [GI Bill of Rights was a government issued bill for veteran's education after World War II.] I said, "I can't. I didn't graduate from high school." He said, "They [have] a special test for [military personnel] who didn't finish high school." That was a 00:30:00GED [high school equivalency diploma]. That is what [a GED] was made for.

RB:That is where it came from? I didn't know that.

JB:After that I went to Utah State [College], took the test and passed it and I was in. I stayed there. I went out to see a friend who was on the freshman football team. I was talking to him and here comes the coach. He said, "Why aren't you getting dressed?" I said, "I don't play football." He said, "Come here." He took me over to the manager and said, "Give this man a uniform."

RB:[Laughter]

JB:So I got a uniform and became a football player!

RB:Had you ever played football before?

JB:Never played football.

RB:Oh, my goodness!

JB:I made the team as I was 190 or 195 pounds and I was solid.

00:31:00

RB:Sure, if you had been a boxer. You had been in the Navy and you came back to college, yes, you probably were in good shape.

JB:I was in good shape and solid as a rock. I made the team playing guard on the football team. That was my Navy experience. [Utah State College], the commander of the ROTC unit, which was ARMY. [The ROTC Unit] was also the promoter, director financer of the boxing team because the schools were not allowed to have a boxing team at that time. My guess [is that] the word got around, I was 00:32:00on the intramural [boxing team]. The [fellows] said, "Well, we want you on the boxing team." I [was on] on the ROTC boxing team [for] two years and received [a] commission.

RB:You did?

JB:An Army commission [as an officer].

RB:So you came back in the military! [Laughter]

JB:Yes, then I went on a mission for the [LDS] church.

RB:Where did you?

JB:[I went to] North Carolina.

RB:How long was that?

JB:[It was for] two years. While I was there I [received] a notice from Fort Bragg, North Carolina saying, "Come." They were not supposed to. The Church and [the Military] had an agreement.

RB:Right.

JB:I went down there, took my physical and [in] two weeks I [received] an invitation and I was in.

RB:[But] you had not finished your mission?

JB:No, they took me off the mission.

RB:[Laughter]

JB:I went to Fort Campbell, Kentucky attached to the 101, no, the 11th Airborne 00:33:00Division. I was in the 76th Tank Battalion attached to the 11th Airborne. I was in about [a] year. We were up in Pine [now Fort Drum] Camp, New York training in the deep snow, in the cold

RB:[Laughter] Yes!

JB: to go to Korea. Korea was raging!

RB:You got out the Navy in 1948, went to Utah State [College] for about a year or so?

JB:A year or two years, a year and a half in Arizona. I transferred to [the University of] Arizona [in Tucson].

RB:You transferred to Arizona then about 1950 you went on your mission?

JB:Yes.

RB:You were there for about .

JB:I was there for only about ten months.

00:34:00

RB:Then you [received] the call.

JB:Then I left the Army. I was in the Army [for] about a year. I was up in Pine Camp. I was a platoon commander of five tanks.

RB:Oh, yes? What was your grade?

JB:[I was a] second lieutenant. Shave tail lieutenant. [Laughter] [This is slang for an inexperienced Second Lieutenant.]

RB:[Laughter]

JB:[Laughter] A dime a dozen.

RB:Yes, [laughter]

JB:One day I [was at] the battalion headquarters, the [fellow] came out and said, "You are wanted at battalion headquarters immediately." I knew what it was.

RB:You were getting a call to go overseas?

JB:I was getting a call, no

RB:No?

JB: I was getting a call to get out. I would have been in jump school at [Fort] Benning [Alabama] and then to Korea in the next two months. So they got 00:35:00me out. I flew back to North Carolina and finished my mission, came home and [was] married.

RB:So you didn't go the Vietnam [or] Korea after all.

JB:No.

RB:[When] you came back from your mission, did you go to Salt Lake [City]?

JB:Yes.

RB:Had you already known your wife

JB:No.

RB: to-be? How did you meet her?

JB:Can I tell the story? [Laughter]

RB:Yes. [Laughter]

JB:I bought a car. During the Korean Conflict the [LDS] missionaries were all in the Army. So we had a big territory. I had a car and covered a big territory. One of my companions had a musical instrument that was big. He couldn't take it 00:36:00on the airplane. He was released from his [LDS] mission two weeks ahead of me. So I brought him home in my car. When I got there, he said, "It's conference time. We have a reunion. Get [yourself] a date and come with me and my wife." He had married! In the meantime

RB:Wow! That was quick!

JB:Yes, she waited for him.

RB:He knew her before, okay.

JB:He said, "I will get you a blind date." I said, "Go ahead." His wife got this girl, she was friends with from Tooele, Utah and her parents lived in Salt Lake [City]. The blind date was with her. We went to the Priesthood meeting. I don't know if you know about .

RB:I am LDS and I have been there before.

JB:So we went to the Priesthood meeting. I went out and picked up his wife. They 00:37:00went out to pick up Joyce [Lenore Burr] She lived out in Midvale [Salt Lake County, Utah]. We got there and drove along. A woman in her car cut across in front of me, from the right to the left. I said, "These crazy women drivers."

RB:[Laughter]

JB:She said, "I don't drive a car at all." I said, "I am going to marry you." Just like that.

RB:Wow! [Laughter]

JB:Just like that and everybody laughed. And my old companion said, "Is that the voice of prophecy, I hear?" That was October.

RB:October [of] 1953?

JB:Third of October, 1953.

RB:[It was] 1953 because you [were] married in January 1954.

JB:Yes, that was it.

RB:So 1953, yes?

JB:Yes.

RB:What did you think when she said that? That she was going to marry you? Did 00:38:00you think that you were going to marry her?

JB:No, it was a joke.

RB:[Laughter]

JB:It was a joke [and] everybody laughed. Then I left and went up to Montana where my brother had a ranch. I spent a couple of weeks up there on his ranch, working and so forth, came back down to Provo [Utah County, Utah] and drove [a] cab. [I went] home [to] my folks [who] lived there also. [They] had just moved from Tucson, to Salt Lake [City] into the same ward. Here I was, it is Thanksgiving. I had nothing to do and thought: Joyce lives down there somewhere. So I drove down tenth east where I knew it was. I recognized the house, stoped, went up to the door and knocked. Her brother came to the door. I said, "Is Joanne here?" He said, "You mean Joyce?" I said, "Yes, yes, yes!" [Laughter]

00:39:00

RB:That was the one. [Laughter]

JB:Joyce was in the front room.

RB:Did she hear you? [Laughter]

JB:Yes! [Laughter] She came to the door. The first night we talked until four o'clock in the morning.

RB:Wow!

JB:We just talked and talked and talked.

RB:Caught up and .

JB:Found out a lot about each other. We both loved to dance.

RB:Where did you learn to dance?

JB:My mother played the piano. She taught herself.

RB:Wow! Very talented.

JB:In those day, the church had dances all the time.

RB:So you picked it up and learned from your .

JB:Yes. I was pretty good dancer. We went to the little turkey farm to dance down in Sandy [Salt Lake County, Utah]. That turned in to a pretty good thing. We just kept going. I took her back to Provo. Then I went to work [as] a taxi 00:40:00cab driver. But I saw her all the time. That was Thanksgiving. We went on our second date. December 27, 1953 we were engaged and January 22, 1954 we were married.

RB:That was fast! But you knew it was the right thing?

JB:Oh, I knew it was the right thing.

RB:Yes, that was good.

JB:Both of us knew it was the right thing.

RB:Were you working at the time? Did you have a job?

JB:No, not really. I did all odd jobs. I had the GI Bill so I had some money, Joyce didn't go to school. She finished her first quarter, quit and started 00:41:00working. I went to school in my junior year. By this time I [had] been to Utah State [College] and [the] University of Arizona.

RB:Where did you go to school after Arizona?

JB:[I went to] BYU [Brigham Young University, Provo, Utah County, Utah].

RB:You went to BYU [while] you were living in Provo?

JB:Yes. I went to BYU but wasn't eligible to play football [the] first quarter.

RB:You did?

JB:No, I wasn't eligible under the transfer rules.

RB:I see. I am sorry.

JB:[Because of] all of the transfer rules, I was ineligible.

RB:I see.

JB:I had to go the full year, then I became eligible for the wrestling team. I had also been wrestling in Utah State. Another story. I was on the BYU wrestling 00:42:00team. I made first in my weight class. The [fellow has] a great picture in there. But that was it. I don't know how far you want to go.

RB:I [would] like to hear [about] how your life turned out after your young years.

JB:I got out of college .

RB:What did you major in?

JB:In general education.

RB:Did you become a teacher?

JB:Yes, I went down to Moapa Valley [Nevada]. Do you know where that is?

RB:In Nevada.

JB:I was a coach. This team [had] never won a championship before. We won the state basketball championship.

00:43:00

RB:You were a basketball coach and .

JB:I was a football coach, a basketball coach, track and everything else. [Laughter]

RB:[Laughter] I am guessing it was a fairly small school? High school?

JB:Yes, it was a small school. It was second tier [in sports].

RB:What did you teach at that high school?

JB:I taught mathematics [and] English. I had a minor in English and in history.

RB:How many years did you stay in Moapa?

JB:Only one [year].

RB:Just the one year?

JB:I [received] a call from the principal [at] West High [in Salt Lake City]. I don't know how he knew, but he called me. He said, "I understand that blah, blah and then we want somebody [who] could coach wrestling and football." I said, 00:44:00"Okay." I turned in my badge and moved to

RB:Then you moved up to

JB: moved up to Salt Lake [City].

RB: Salt Lake [City].

JB:I was there three [or] four years. I started selling cookware. My brother came along and [was] selling cookware. It was new stainless steel. This had been the deal. They made this new three-ply stainless steel. Big deal! He was selling it to the working girls, not prostitutes, but

RB:Yes, the young girls who had employment and they could afford it.

JB: a trip for their dowry, they call it?

RB:Their dowry to prepare to get married.

00:45:00

JB:Yes. So I said, "What do you get for selling this?" He said, "[I get] $30.00." In those days $30.00 was pretty good. I said, "Man, $30.00 I could sell that. That is better than [what] I am doing]."

RB:Right! [Laughter]

JB:I was working on jobs [and going to] school. I started selling cookware.

RB:[Were you] doing pretty good?

JB:Yes, so we finished [school] and we graduated. I started there awhile before I .

RB:Were you selling the cookware in Provo?

JB:Yes.

RB:Then you came back to Salt Lake [City]?

JB:[We] came back to Salt Lake [City] and I got a kit from this company. They had new cookware and .

RB:What were they called? Do you remember?

JB:[It was called] Luster Craft and Rena Ware was popular. There were two or 00:46:00three companies. I don't know.

RB:I am just curious. That was a thing back in the 1950s.

JB:Yes. That was a big deal. Then in 1955, 1958, 1959, 1960 [there was] senator, not senator, governor of Utah, Jay Bracken Lee. [Do] you remember that name?

RB:I don't.

JB:You were in California. He voted down a raise for the teachers. I said, "You dirty bugger."

RB:[Laughter]

JB:You [could] hardly make a living. My brother was teaching school in Arizona. They needed a coach and they called me. [They] tried to get [me] to come down 00:47:00and see it. I went down and we decided to do it. Big raise, bigger school.

RB:Where in Arizona?

JB:Well, it took in Vincent, [in] St. David, Tombstone, all of those towns, about fifty miles out of Tucson.

RB:They paid better than Utah? [Laughter]

JB:It was almost double. I was there only one year. They said I had to get more schooling in Arizona. I was making so much money. I was making more money selling than .

RB:Than teaching school?

JB:We talked it over and decided to move back to Salt Lake [City]. [I] had an offer with an insurance company.

RB:To sell insurance?

00:48:00

JB:I worked selling and from there I was a salesman. I spent the rest of my professional life in sales. It wasn't always the same. I sold insurance, real estate, whatever.

RB:You learned to be able to sell, you had a good .

JB:I was an entrepreneur, if you asked me.

RB:[You had] a good knack for talking to people.

JB:Yes.

RB:[Laughter] That was great!

JB:People used to say, "You can sell refrigerators to an Eskimo," [laughter] that kind of thing.

RB:[Laughter]

JB:I was a pretty good salesman. I went from several different things. I went to California

RB:You did?

JB:For this company. It was an insurance company. They bought another insurance company in California and put it in their program. It was a health and sickness 00:49:00kind of insurance.

RB:That kind of insurance, yes.

JB:I went down there. We saw them down there doing well. The [LDS] stake president said, "We [would] like to have you stay. You [can] take these classes [and] get your California teaching [degree]. I can get you a good job coaching."

RB:Where was that?

JB:[In] San Luis Obispo [California]. So I said, "Yes." Then just about then the division manager of this insurance company came to me. He said, "I want a manager in Sacramento [California]." Sacramento included all the way up to 00:50:00[Lake] Tahoe [Nevada] and all the way down to the grapes of .

RB:To Selma, Fresno, Modesto [in California]?

JB:Go down west.

RB:Oh, the west from Sacramento?

JB:Yes.

RB:Vallejo, Benecia [California]?

JB:Up north of there, to Napa [California].

RB:Napa that is where the grapes are in the wine country.

JB:Napa county, between that and Tahoe.

RB:I see, the whole area.

JB:[There were] about fifteen salesmen. The bucks [dollars] were big. I was there a year or so. He came and said, "We found out that most of these people hold their insurance a year or so and then drop it. So here is what I want you to do. Tell your men to [not] write them up honestly. Don't include diabetics. 00:51:00Don't put it on the application, just put [keep] them all clean." I said, "Bill, I won't do that. That is illegal, dishonest and I won't do it." He said, "Goodbye." I said, "Goodbye to you." We had a mutual understanding and I left.

I had two [children who] wet the bed. Nocturnal enuresis is what they call [it]. We found ths program that corrected the bed wetting and I bought it. They had this rubberized, gridded thing that you put in [the] bed. It was like a 00:52:00pillowcase. You put it in the bed and it turns on a light. It works with the Pavlov principle. The bell goes on and the light goes on. [Ivan Pavlov successfully associated an unconditioned response with a conditioned stimulus, eventually creating a conditioned response.] As soon as the pee hits the blanket it wakes them up. A few times [of] this they learn and their sphincter muscles close and they don't wet the bed anymore. So we corrected that. My two [children] were corrected.

RB:That was a good product.

JB:I called this [fellow] in Michigan and Minnesota. He said, "Yes." I said, "I want to sell it." We got on an airplane and were out the next day.

RB:[Laughter]

JB:He said, "My manager in San Francisco [California] is a drunk. If you come to work for me, you can be sales manager in California." Just like that! I said, 00:53:00"Hey, okay!" So we went to work with them and I bought it. I bought the whole .

RB:The company?

JB:No, not the company, just the franchise.

RB:So after you left the insurance company because you didn't want to participate in this [fellow's] scheme, were you unemployed at that point?

JB:Yes.

RB:For awhile and then

JB:[For] two weeks.

RB: but then you [were] connected with this other company?

JB:I knew about them. My [children] were already being corrected, so I called out to .

RB:This was a good product [and] you wanted to get involved?

JB:It worked. The problem was that it was a lot of traveling. I had to travel a lot [you know the concept of peeing] the bed, you don't advertise it.

RB:No.

JB:You have to be subtle and careful and so forth. So it was hard to get good men who could sell and do the things you had to do. You have to have the 00:54:00appearance of a doctor.

RB:That is true [be] very professional, I would imagine, and knowledgeable and look the part.

JB:Yes.

RB:[Did] you have to train these people? Find the right people?

JB:That is right, [I] had to train them. We made money. My brother came in on that and he was with me when we bought it.

RB:He bought the franchise for Northern California?

JB:Yes.

RB:What was the name of the company again?

JB:Enurtone.

RB:How do you spell that?

JB:E-N-U-R-T-O-N-E. We bought the rights for Southern California also. So we had all of California [and] Nevada and all the western states including north to Oregon

00:55:00

RB:This meant you were traveling quite a bit, all over. This was in the 1960s?

JB:In [the] 1960s, when I was with the insurance company, probably not quite a year. The Enurtone were several years old. This was the time [of] the Watt Riots [in Los Angeles, California] in the .

RB:[In] 1967 [or] so, yes?

JB:Things were pretty rough, I decided I didn't want to raise my kids here, so we decided to go back to Utah. One of the [fellows who] worked for me, a little Jewish [fellow], not a [youngster], a [fellow]

RB:[Laughter] Right!

JB: from New York wanted to buy it, so I said, "Give you a price?" He said, "I will get the money." He called somebody in New York, one of his family or 00:56:00whomever, I don't know. He [had] part of the money and I made a deal with him for the money and monthly [payments]. He was sending me money [and] we moved back to Salt Lake [City].

RB:What did you do there?

JB:I went to work for a company called they had a [very] good program they sold a deal with wholesale foods. All of the foods except meats, vegetables and dairy. They would sell it on the six month food program [at] a [very] good price to buy it that way. People liked this so we sold them memberships [for] 00:57:00six months' worth of food reorder every six months. It included the meat we had the meat. If they had a freezer, if they didn't [have one] we would get them one. I started doing that. We were there for about a year. He said, "I want to open up in Denver, Colorado. Will you manage Colorado?" I said, "Sure." So we moved to Denver. I was a state sales manager. I started hiring, training men and we had a big deal. I was doing [very] well. About a year or so, in the 1970s, it had to be 1974 or 1975. He wanted to expand. This [fellow] came to me and said, 00:58:00"I have some German money. If I get you the money, you better make me VP [vice-president] of sales." Then he said, "I want to have my office in Denver." He was a jerk. He came. I had a big building and we made an office for him. I had a telephone room where my girls would telephone and make appointments. I had a good honest thing [situation]. He started going in the telephone room without me knowing it and told them to do this and this. He was lying and telling them things that weren't true to get appointments. He was telling them things that made him want to get appointments. I found out about it. I took him in my office 00:59:00and said, "Okay, you quit" and that was it. He gave me a hard time and I literally threw him out of my office.

RB:Oh, man!

JB:He called the owner in Salt Lake [City]. The owner was on the next airplane to Denver and we had it out. They fired me. I said, "I won't put up with it." They gave me $12,000.00 severance pay and that was it. There I was, out of a job again. [Laughter]

RB:Did this gentleman, did he know the owner in Salt Lake [City]?

JB:No, I don't know how he got it. [He] put out the "feelers" that he wanted some money. This [fellow, the employee] in California, actually, he heard and came.

01:00:00

RB:What did you do then? You are in Denver and you are out of another job?

JB:It just so happened that Bill Reilly he was a little Irishman and was one smart cookie. He had a program for selling apartments. He would have these salesmen [and] have to be licensed. Over here on one side was the listers and over here on the other side were the salesmen. Neither salesmen couldn't list and the listers couldn't sell. That eliminated any "come sell my listing." That eliminated that. I was made the chief appraiser for the listers. It was like a 01:01:00sales manager. And it was a good deal.

RB:Were they selling apartment buildings?

JB:We were going to the owners of these apartments. Family owned apartments usually small -- twelve, twenty-four [or] thirty-six units. Usually most of them were poorly managed. Mom and pop were tired of the apartment business. Tenants can kill you pretty tough they are either at your throat or your feet all the time.

RB:[Laughter]

JB:So we started going to these homeowners .

RB:Apartment owners.

JB:Booking, listing them and then selling them. On selling them, we would talk 01:02:00the owner into carrying the paper, so we didn't have to go into a federal loan lender. They called it a wraparound mortgage for each. You know [about] the wraparound mortgage?

RB:It has been awhile, but, yes, I think so.

JB:Say for instance you own an apartment and you owed $100,000.00. We sold it for $200,000.00. Here is a $100,000.00 paper. They would carry that $100,000.00 at a higher interest rate. They would like that because they were making the money on the interest rate and so on the balance they were doing it. They were making the money. It was a good deal for them. The federal insurance, the federal banks, were just up in the air. They tried to get Bill Reilly everyway they could. Let's see, that was in 1972, 1973. No, no, it had to be 1974 or 1975.

01:03:00

RB:You were in your late forties by that point. You were born in 1928, so in 1978 you would have been fifty [years old, or] forty-six, forty-seven.

JB:I had teenage [youngsters]. Where was I?

RB:You were telling about the "feds" being a little bit upset with this arrangement.

JB:When we started, the interest rate in those days, was 10%, 12%. Now what is it, 2%, 3% [or] 4%? But then it was 12% and everybody thought that was great.

RB:Yes.

JB:It started going up and went up to 17%.

01:04:00

RB:Yes, in the late 1970s, it was crazy!

JB:Well, it wasn't until 1981, 1982 when it got to the point we couldn't wrap them. So we went out of business. I had several thousand dollars in paper that I had taken over and beside I was making good money. Then I got involved in a gold min.

RB:A gold mine? Literally, a gold mine?

JB:[Yes.] This [fellow] was from Utah State, I knew him. He was a mining engineer and he came to me. He said, "I got this deal!" [Laughter] Yukon Territory. I got on the airplane and we flew up there [to check it out]. He 01:05:00said, "I need some investors." So we checked it out. Gold was there, very soft, fine gold. He said, "I have the machine that will recover it." I went around Salt Lake [City] and picked up about four [fellows]. We all put up $80,000. That was in the spring. We couldn't start mining until almost the first of June because of the weather.

RB:About what year is this?

JB:This had to be in 1978, no 1980 [or] 1982.

RB:[In] 1982 was after the interest rate just spiked. Was there a recession [in] 1981, 1982?

01:06:00

JB:Something like that, yes. My mind flew somewhere.

RB:That's okay.

JB:There we were. We put up this money and mined all summer. I went up there two or three times. Everything was on the up and up, except the machine couldn't recover the fine gold. The machine never recovered enough gold to pay the expenses.

RB:No profit! Oh, dear!

JB:So there we were. We put up our money and it was gone. That was in the 1980s. My wife got a job. She was very bright and she got a job as an accountant. What 01:07:00they called it? A payroll clerk.

RB:She did the payroll for the workers?

JB:I jumped around and sold a few things here and there. Then I got involved in a company. [It] happened [that my wife's] company had an office in [Las] Vegas [Nevada]. [They] wanted me to go to [Las] Vegas, set up this lighting [program]. So I did that and it didn't turn out too well. Then in 1990 things got a little 01:08:00. The truckers that were carrying garbage [and it] would fly out [of their trucks]. They didn't have a decent way to cover [their loads]. I found this place in San Diego County [California] that made tarps [that] they would put over, like a window, like go up and down? I got the sales [program] for Utah. I was selling tarps and I was doing [well].

RB:[Laughter]

JB:The [fellow] who was the transportation manager for Utah, I had it all 01:09:00written up and waiting. He said the senate is going to pass this law. [The law was] about [what the] trucks had to have.

RB;[They] had to have something to cover [their load] because they had refuse on the road.

JB:They didn't pass it and that would [have] made me thousands and thousands!

RB:Right, right! [Laughter]

JB:[Laughter] They didn't pass it. Anyway, I had several companies. Then we moved. We were living out [in] Midvale [Salt Lake County, Utah] when I came up. I rented this apartment. It was dark and when the contract was up, we found another one and moved into that. That was in 1992. We moved in [and] two weeks 01:10:00later I got a call to be the bishop.

RB:This is in Midvale?

JB:No, that was up in South Salt Lake [Salt Lake County, Utah], Thirty-third South, in that area.

RB:And you are about sixty-four [years old]?

JB:I am right there, I am sixty-two [years old]

RB:Sixty-two? [Laughter]

JB:Joyce said, "Why don't you just quit." The problem was it was a ward [where] the bishop had been a nice [fellow]. Everybody ran [the ward] except him and it was chaos. So Joyce said, "Why don't you quit work? She had this good job with this construction company as the payroll clerk/manager. So I quit, sold my truck.

01:11:00

RB:[Laughter]

JB:And became a bishop.

RB:So you were kind of retired from fulltime work at that point.

JB:Haven't worked another job since.

RB:How long were you the bishop?

JB:I was a bishop about four and a half years. There was another reason [I quit]. I got cancer.

RB:You did? What kind of cancer?

JB:Prostate cancer. The doctor cut out my prostate. He said, "I got everything. You're fine." Two weeks later he calls us and says, "I need to talk to you." He said, "The report from the laboratory [was that the cancer] is very vicious, 01:12:00very aggressive." He told my wife that I would probably be dead in a year's time.

RB:That was over twenty-five years ago. What happened?

JB:I [went] home and called the stake president and told him what had happened. I had to have this, not radiation, but the other one.

RB:Chemotherapy?

JB:Chemotherapy, "which starts next Friday." He said, "Okay." That was on a Friday. Sunday was the first Sunday I had gone to church after my surgery. I had 01:13:00a couple of appointments, trying to take it easy. I came out of the bishop's office, and there was my stake president. He said, "I am wondering if I can go to the sacrament meeting with you?" What do you tell the stake president?

RB:[Laughter]

JB:We were on the stand together. He said to me that he had the feeling all morning that he wanted to give me a blessing. You are LDS so you'll understand.

RB:I understand.

JB:So after the meeting we went back into the bishop's office. At that time, his counselor said, "Come". There were his counselors and my counselors, and my wife and a granddaughter. The stake president said, "The Lord isn't through with you 01:14:00yet." He said "When you go back to the doctor's, you won't have cancer.".

RB:Wow!

JB:I went to the doctor and got tester. The cancer was totally clear.

RB:And you are still here! [Laughter]

JB:So I had been bishop about four and a half years. Then, a couple of weeks later, he called me again. The stake president said his second counselor had been called to a special church assignment. He asked me to be one of his counselors. So, I went down and I was a bishop for two weeks as well as a stake 01:15:00counselor for two weeks.

RB:[Laughter]

JB:I had a temple recommend with me signing in all three lines.

RB:[Laughter] The bishop and the stake presidency? That is funny!

JB:Anyway, I served there for two and a half years. [Then] I got a call. They said the stake president got a call. He called me and said, "How would you like to go on a mission to Thailand?" I said, "What are you talking about?" He said he just got a call from the Church Office building and they asked if I could be released to take the calling. We prayed about it and talked about it. My wife was excited; she wanted to go on the mission. We said, "Yes." We turned in our 01:16:00papers and got a mission to Thailand.

RB:What kind of a mission did you do?

JB:It was another interesting thing. The people in Thailand had realized that they were way behind in some of their social aspects. They realized that English would be the international language. So they wanted the people to learn English. So all the teachers had to learn conversational English. They knew grammar better than I did. But they were bashful, the Church called ten couples to go and teach English. At the end of their two years, the Church called twenty more. Ten to replace and ten more. We went over there and the Country director had us 01:17:00waiting. We waited and waited and waited. We said we don't care. We are big kids. We had twenty couples. The Church made the assignments. Joyce and I were the last ones. We walked in there and they said, "How would like [to go] alone?"

RB:[Laughter]

JB:They sent us to a town that was 350 miles northeast. We had a little branch 01:18:00there. They needed a couple to be an up country director. We went to SiSi Gate, Thailand and they started calling more couples.

RB:That is interesting.

JB:The Church gave me a big, brand new Toyota diesel van. A twelve person van.

RB:[Laughter]

JB:It was my job to go out and talk to the commissioners of English. Most of them could speak English. I went out to sell them on the idea of selling the English program to them. Most of them did like it; some didn't. The missionaries 01:19:00came in, we would bring them in and set them up to teach English to the English teachers.

RB:Yes.

JB:They had each province which had eight districts. They would teach one district in the morning, another district in the afternoon and another one the next day. That is what we did.

RB:Was the program successful?

JB:Oh, very!

RB:Were you well received? That is great! [Laughter]

JB:Yes, they loved us. They thought we waked on water.

RB:How did you like living in Thailand?

JB:I loved it! The people were so nice. We told the [local leaders] w had to 01:20:00have an apartment with a regular flush toilet no holes in the ground like they have in Thailand.

RB:Yes.

JB:We had to have a good bathroom with running water. And we had to be close enough [to get] groceries.

RB:Yes. If you had that you could survive comfortably.

JB:They found us these apartments. We had a [very] nice apartment. It didn't cost us much. We had this apartment for two years. The Thais have so many vacations. The queen's birthday, the king's birthday, water day.

RB:[Laughter] Every day was an excuse for a holiday!

JB:We were told when they had their vacations we could sightsee and see 01:21:00Thailand. Three days we would look around. There was plenty to see all over the land. Sometimes there would be a two-week vacation, I would gather up all the ones in my area and we would go to big places.

RB:You had the big van to take them around.

JB:Yes. The bridge on the River Kwai, they have a big electric show

RB:Is that right?

JB:It was pretty good.

RB:What religion is practiced there, primarily?

JB:Buddhism. There were some Christians there too. We weren't allowed to proselyte.

01:22:00

RB:No, that wasn't what the mission was.

JB:We had missionaries there, but they were not allowed to go to homes. They had to meet people on the street or wherever. We weren't allowed either. We weren't allowed to do anything. We could answer questions if they wanted to know about Christ. But we weren't allowed to teach the Gospel in any way. So there we were for two years. From there we came home. After a year, we said we needed to do something. We wanted to [get into] family history.

RB:Where were you living then?

JB:[We were living] in Salt Lake [City].

RB:South Salt Lake [City] or?

JB:In Midvale.

RB:That was the area.

JB:We had a condominium there. The next few days we had a telephone call. It was 01:23:00from the Church Office building. They said, "Would you come in and talk to us." We said we would pray about it.]

RB:[Laughter]

JB:So we did. We went in. It was the humanitarian center. Have you been there?

RB:No.

JB:The humanitarian center in Salt Lake [City] is a giant warehouse. All the clothing and everything that is being donated goes through the humanitarian center. It is different the way it is now.

RB:Yes.

JB:People come in by the thousands to tour it.

RB:They used to call it the welfare center?

JB:No, it is not the welfare center. The welfare center is different. The welfare center has the bishop's storehouse and the dairy.

01:24:00

RB:So this is the humanitarian [center].

JB:This is a little different. It is just west and south of the welfare center. They wanted us to be the VIP hosts.

RB:[Laughter]

JB:We would give tours for the missionaries from Temple Square who toured members.

RB:You were for the VIPs who came to visit?

JB:That was me. My wife was put in charge of the quilting. In those days, they made lots of quilts. She was a quilter. She knew fabrics as well as anybody. So she took care of that. I arranged tours. When other people from other countries, 01:25:00universities and churches came in to learn about the humanitarian program.

RB:Did you meet some interesting people?

JB:Yes

RB:[Laughter] Good!

JB:We spent two years there doing that. We were released from that on our fiftieth [wedding] anniversary. We traveled around a little bit. We had some friends who were missionaries with us who went to Thailand who lived in Oregon. We went to visit them. While we were there, which was about six months since we had come home, and since we had been released. We were at the Christensen's. We got a call. The fellow said, "I want to talk to Elder and Sister Brown." We made 01:26:00a telephone call to the [fellow] who was in charge of the humanitarian missions. "We have some countries that need country directors. Which one would you like to go to?" We said, "We won't make that decision. You make it." When we got home, we had a letter calling us to be the country directors in Armenia. So here we go again! That was about six months after we left the humanitarian center.

RB:That would have been about 2004?

JB:Yes, 2004.

RB:By any chance, were you there when a couple by the name of Gardners, Lynn 01:27:00Gardner, was in Armenia?

JB:That name sounds familiar.

RB:Lynn Gardner and Glen Gardner. They served in Armenia about that time, 2003.

JB:Were they missionaries?

RB:I think they were missionaries, yes.

JB:We used to get to know those missionaries, I think, they were there and left.

RB:She is also an author. She wrote fiction books. I think Bookcraft published them. That reminded me, because she was in my ward in California and she talked about her experience in Armenia at that time.

JB:She might have been there. The name sounds familiar.

RB:Just a thought!

JB:Anyway, we were there. About a year had gone by and I started having dizzy spells.

01:28:00

RB:Oh, no!

JB:The doctor there told the church that I had a stroke. We had been working on a water problem. We put water in villages all over the country. The Russians came in 1918 and created villages. Each village did something to provide [for] the economy manufacturing, farming or whatever. So they put in water but they had the old cast iron pipes. When we were there the pipes rusted down.

RB:Deteriorated.

JB:The water was terrible. The elders before us started it. We put in new pipes. 01:29:00I had an Armenian manager at the time. We put water in all these villages. We had to close one village to missionaries. We had finished the [water project] but hadn't had the closing ceremony. Also, we had a program for babies.

01:30:00

RB:With a midwife? Or something?

JB:They were for babies born

RB:Premature?

JB: premature, maybe, and didn't have care facilities for them. What do they call it?

RB:I don't remember.

JB:Anyway, we were setting up the program in our area. We had LDS doctors go over there and hold seminars in a clinic. The LDS doctors would take their doctors and teach them in the big cities. We gave them thousands of dollars' worth of equipment for babies in the big cities like the capital city, Yerevan. [The] mortality rate is about 52% in the rural areas.

01:31:00

RB:That is awful.

JB:If I get away from the pills, my mind is better.

RB:That is okay.

JB:[It was] Thanksgiving and we had this one commissioner that had not approved this baby thing. [Neonatal care facility.] He was very important because he was right there in Yerevan. We went to Thanksgiving breakfast at the seminar. We 01:32:00went over to his office, just got there and sat down, here he comes in casual clothes. He signed the papers, just like that and away we went back and got on the airplane. That was it.

RB:Oh, my goodness! Somebody prepared the way for you. [Laughter]

JB:Yes. Somebody prepared the way for him, too. We had so many miracles you can't believe it. It was a great mission.

RB:That was a fabulous time!

JB:Then we came home.

RB:When did you come home?

JB:It was in 2005. We came home and Joyce started getting signs of Alzheimer's disease.

RB:Oh, dear.

JB:Not yet. They called us to be missionaries in the Twelve-Step Recovery 01:33:00program. Do you know about that?

RB:I do.

JB:So, we were doing the work as missionaries in the Twelve-Step program. We were with them about three or four years.

JB:That was a great experience. About 2008 the signs of Alzheimer's were getting worse. She didn't want to quit, but she couldn't teach. She couldn't give the lessons

RB:You are eighty-years old in 2008?

JB:Yes, I was in my eighties.

RB:She [Joyce] is about six years younger than you. So she is about seventy-four 01:34:00[years old at that time].

JB:She was eighty in a few weeks when she died. She would have been eighty.

RB:That makes sense.

JB:In 2008, my brother in Montana, I was his executor. He and his wife both died that year. Joyce got so she really couldn't teach. So I quit everything and took care of my wife until she died in 2014.

RB:Of course. In 2014. Were you up in Salt Lake [City], right?

JB:Yes.

01:35:00

RB:How did you end up coming down here to St. George [Washington County, Utah]?

JB:I got it in my head that I wanted to go back to Thailand to see old friends. So I did. I had been going to the hospitl for minor things. I had a high veteran's priority because I was a veteran during wartime and peacetime.

RB:That is right, you were a World War II veteran. At the tail end, but still.

JB:I was a World War II veteran and a Korean [Conflict] veteran.

RB:You had a high priority.

JB:So I went to Thailand and saw these really good friends of ours and they had an English speaking school. I had a small room to stay in. I got up to go to the 01:36:00bathroom at 4:15 [a.m.], came back and I fell. I hit my head on something more solid than my head. I knocked me out colder than a milkshake. I laid there in my blood until at 7:00 [a.m.] o'clock. It was about 4:00 o'clock to about 7:00 o'clock. They found me, took me to the doctor. The doctor over there didn't know what to do. I had travel insurance. My daughter made me get travel insurance.

The insurance company sent a doctor out of Los Angeles [California] to escort me 01:37:00home. She came and escorted me to Salt Lake [City], ran a few tests and [suggested] that I go to the veteran's home. I went to the veteran's home in Salt Lake [City]. It's not good.

RB:Is it? This one is new, about five years old and .

JB:That one is old and two to a room.

RB:Oh, no!

JB:It was bad. I stayed there for about six months and then I heard about this one [the Southern Utah Veterans Home in Ivins]. I kept thinking about it. I asked the social worker what I had to do to get transferred. She looked at my records and said, "You are at the top of the list." I never had to [go through] any of that waiting period.

RB:You were at the top of the list because you were a war-time veteran?

JB:Yes. I was at the top of the list, so they had a room that was empty. The bus 01:38:00boss in Salt Lake and I became really good friends. He took one of the busses, went from Salt Lake [City] and brought me back here.

RB:That is incredible!

JB:That was it. Here I am!

RB:That was a great story. You have had some incredible experiences in your life.

JB:I have been blessed in a lot of ways. I had a great marriage

RB:I can see that. We will go ahead and finish this interview. I appreciate you sharing your stories, not only war-time, but your life stories. Thank you very much!

JB:Obviously, I left out a lot.

RB:Sure.

JB:But you got the picture.

01:39:00

RB:Alright, thanks!

[END OF RECORDING]